Kaltuism

Venus Figurines: Found across Europe, these are paleolithic statuettes depicting women, often with exaggerated sexual features. Some believe they represent fertility goddesses or perhaps ancestor worship, but their exact purpose remains a mystery.
Bear Cult: Evidence from Paleolithic cave art suggests that bears may have held a special significance, perhaps even being the object of a kind of bear worship or cult.
The Lion Man: An artifact found in Germany, this is a figurine made from mammoth ivory, depicting a lion's head on a humanoid body. It might suggest some form of animistic or totemic belief.
Bird and Snake Imagery: Certain symbols, like birds and snakes, appear in ancient art across multiple cultures and might hint at religious or mythological significance.
Megalthic Monuments: While these structures (like Stonehenge) might be slightly later and could have been influenced by PIE speakers, some of them may predate the PIE expansion. They often have astronomical alignments, suggesting some form of sun or sky worship.
Later European Folklore: Some researchers believe that remnants of pre-PIE beliefs might linger in European folklore, especially in tales and rituals that don't easily fit the later Indo-European mythological themes.
Old European Script: There's evidence of symbolic systems from Neolithic Europe, like the Vinča symbols, which could potentially hint at religious concepts, although their meanings remain elusive.
It's essential to approach these examples with caution. Much of prehistoric archaeology involves interpretation, and without written records or contemporary explanations, it's challenging to definitively label an artifact or symbol as representing a particular deity or religious belief.



User what are the vinca symbols ChatGPT The Vinča symbols, also known as the Vinča script or Vinča-Turdaș script, are a collection of symbols found on artifacts from the Vinča culture, a Neolithic civilization that existed in the Balkans around 6000-4500 BCE. These artifacts have been excavated from various sites in present-day Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romania.
The Vinča symbols are intriguing for several reasons:
Quantity and Consistency: Over a thousand fragments with these symbols have been found. The consistency in some of these symbols suggests a standardized system, which is remarkable for a prehistoric culture.
Possible Early Writing System: Due to the systematic appearance of these symbols, some scholars have proposed that the Vinča symbols represent one of the world's earliest forms of writing, predating Sumerian cuneiform. However, this is still a matter of debate. Others believe that while they might represent some form of communication or record-keeping, they might not qualify as "writing" in the way we typically understand it.
Meaning: The meaning of the symbols remains unknown. Without a "Rosetta Stone" equivalent, it's challenging to decipher such ancient symbols. Some posit they could be religious symbols, clan markings, or even early numerals.
Relation to Other Scripts: Some have suggested that the Vinča symbols might have influenced later writing systems, like the Cretan hieroglyphs or even Linear A. While such claims are speculative, they add another layer of intrigue to the mystery of the Vinča culture.
It's worth noting that while the Vinča symbols are fascinating, claims about them being the "first writing system" or directly related to other scripts should be approached with caution. The origins and evolution of writing are complex, and there's still much that remains unknown.



User what elements of later european folklore have remnants of pre-pie beliefs?
What deities are commonly believed to pre-date PIE ChatGPT The remnants of pre-Proto-Indo-European (pre-PIE) beliefs in later European folklore are speculative and challenging to pin down definitively due to the nature of oral traditions and the intermixing of cultures over millennia. However, some elements of European folklore and mythology might have origins in older, pre-PIE traditions:
Mother Goddess/Fertility Figures: The Paleolithic Venus figurines, which depict women with exaggerated sexual features, might represent early fertility goddesses or ancestor worship. Concepts of earth mothers or fertility goddesses are found in many later European cultures and might have roots in these earlier figures.
Totemism and Animism: Many European folk tales and traditions incorporate animals in significant roles, as helpers, antagonists, or supernatural beings. While animals are also central in PIE myths, some specific animal-focused tales or traditions, especially those centered on local fauna or older practices like bear worship, might hint at pre-PIE origins.
Megaliths and Stone Circles: Sites like Stonehenge, and many lesser-known stone circles and megaliths, often have astronomical alignments. The traditions, myths, and legends surrounding these might contain traces of pre-PIE beliefs, especially those related to sun or sky worship.
Water and Tree Spirits: While water and tree deities are also known from Indo-European sources, certain local beliefs about sacred groves, water nymphs, or specific trees and springs might have older, pre-PIE roots.
Local Legends and Spirits: Spirits associated with specific local landmarks (like mountains, lakes, or caves) might have pre-PIE origins, especially if they don't fit neatly into the pantheons or narratives introduced by later Indo-Europeans.
In terms of deities that pre-date PIE:
Fertility Goddesses: As mentioned, the Venus figurines might hint at early goddess worship focused on fertility or earth.
Local Deities: Before the spread of PIE cultures, Europe was home to many different groups with their own beliefs. Local gods and goddesses tied to specific geographical features, animals, or natural phenomena could predate PIE influences.
Chthonic Deities: While the Indo-Europeans also had underworld deities, some specific chthonic (underworld or earth-associated) beliefs or gods might have pre-PIE origins.
Again, it's essential to stress that while these hypotheses are based on research and comparative mythology, they remain speculative to varying degrees. The prehistory of Europe spans tens of thousands of years and involved many diverse cultures, making it a rich but complex tapestry to decipher.



User which gods specifically might not be from PIE? ChatGPT While the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) pantheon and religious beliefs heavily influenced the mythologies of many European and Asian cultures, there are numerous gods and goddesses in these traditions that might have origins outside of the PIE framework. Identifying them with certainty can be challenging due to the complex interplay of cultural interactions over millennia. However, some gods and goddesses from various traditions have been proposed as possibly non-PIE in origin:
Celtic Pantheon:
Cernunnos: Often depicted as a horned god, he is associated with animals, nature, and fertility. His origins are not clear, and he might represent a pre-Indo-European deity of the Celts. Epona: A goddess associated with horses. While the Indo-Europeans had horse deities, Epona's specific form and worship might have non-PIE origins. Norse Pantheon:
Freyr and Freyja: While they are commonly associated with the Vanir (a group of Norse deities), and many elements of their worship fit the PIE framework, some aspects of their cult might predate Indo-European influence in Scandinavia. Greek Pantheon:
Dionysus: While many of his characteristics align with Indo-European gods, some elements of his worship, especially those connected with ecstatic rites and practices, suggest influences from non-PIE cultures, possibly from the Near East. Baltic and Slavic Pantheons:
Specific gods related to localized natural phenomena, like certain rivers, mountains, or forests, might have pre-PIE origins, especially given the rich tapestry of cultures that existed in these regions. Hittite Pantheon:
The Hittites adopted many gods from the non-Indo-European Hattian culture. While some were syncretized with PIE gods, others, like the storm god Tarhunt, retained distinct non-PIE characteristics. Basque Mythology:
The Basques are unique in Europe, with a language and cultural origins distinct from their Indo-European neighbors. Deities like Mari, the primary goddess in Basque mythology, would likely have non-PIE origins. Remember, tracing the origins of specific deities is a complex task. Over time, gods from different traditions often merged, borrowed attributes from one another, or were reinterpreted, making their original forms and origins challenging to pin down with certainty.



User what about just those suspected of belonging to brittanic and celtic people ChatGPT Certainly! The Brittonic and Celtic pantheons, while bearing some resemblances to Proto-Indo-European deities, have distinct features that suggest some might be of pre-PIE origin or were heavily influenced by non-PIE cultures that existed in their regions.
For the Brittonic (or Brythonic) peoples, including the ancient inhabitants of Britain before the Anglo-Saxon migrations:
Epona: This horse goddess has a cult that's widely recognized across the Celtic world and Roman Empire. While the horse was a significant symbol for Indo-Europeans, Epona's specific form and the nature of her worship might suggest earlier, possibly non-PIE, roots.
Sulis: Venerated at the thermal spring of Bath, England. Her association with the waters of this specific locale suggests she might have been a local deity predating Roman and perhaps even earlier Celtic influences.
For the broader Celtic realm:
Cernunnos: Often termed the "Horned God," Cernunnos is depicted with antlers and surrounded by animals. He's been found primarily on Gaulish artifacts, but his specific origins remain elusive. Some propose he might represent a pre-Indo-European deity of the Celts.
Sequana: The goddess of the River Seine, her origins might be deeply local and predate broader Celtic and Indo-European influences.
Belisama: A goddess possibly linked to lakes and rivers, particularly the Ribble in England.
Brigantia: While she shares some similarities with the Irish Brigid (who herself has PIE connections), Brigantia, venerated in Northern England, also has specific associations with rivers and localities, suggesting a blend of influences or a potentially pre-PIE origin.
Nantosuelta: A Gaulish goddess often depicted with a raven and sometimes associated with domesticity or the home, her origins aren't clearly PIE and might derive from earlier local beliefs.
Local Deities: Many local deities associated with specific geographical features (rivers, mountains, forests) might have been originally pre-PIE and then absorbed and integrated into the wider Celtic pantheon as the Celtic culture spread and evolved.
Again, it's essential to stress that while these deities show signs of potentially pre-PIE origins or influences, pinpointing the exact roots of such ancient figures is challenging. Over centuries, syncretism and cultural blending could significantly reshape or merge older deities, making their original forms harder to discern.



User any more? ChatGPT Certainly, the world of Celtic deities is vast, and many might have pre-Proto-Indo-European (pre-PIE) or localized origins, especially given the tendency of Celtic cultures to absorb and integrate local beliefs. Here are some more deities and spirits from Celtic regions that might have origins or influences outside the PIE framework:
Maponos: Associated with youth and often equated with the Roman god Apollo. However, his origins could be more ancient, and the name's etymology points to a connection with the Old Welsh word for "son."
Nodens: A god associated with healing, the sea, hunting, and dogs, venerated mainly in Iron Age Britain. The exact origins of Nodens are uncertain, and he could represent a fusion of several older deities.
Abnoba: A goddess associated with forests and rivers and specifically revered in the Black Forest region. Her localized nature might suggest non-PIE origins.
Artio: A bear goddess from the region of Bern in Switzerland. Considering ancient Europe's potential bear cults, Artio could be a continuation of pre-PIE bear veneration.
Grannus: Associated with healing thermal springs. While he's often linked with the Roman god Apollo, the specifics of his worship, especially its association with specific healing springs, might have more ancient, localized roots.
Taranis: Often equated with the Roman Jupiter due to his association with thunder. Yet, certain symbols and practices linked to Taranis, like the wheel symbol, could have more ancient origins than the general PIE thunder god archetype.
Lugus (or Lugh): While he shares many characteristics with PIE gods, certain aspects of his veneration, including possibly his association with the Lughnasadh festival, might derive from non-PIE cultures or represent a fusion of beliefs.
Local Spirits and Ancestor Worship: Beyond the gods and goddesses, the Celts also venerated local spirits, known as genii loci, and ancestors. Many of these spirits associated with specific rivers, forests, hills, or other landmarks might be remnants of pre-PIE veneration.
It's worth noting that the Celts were not a single unified entity but a collection of tribes and groups that shared linguistic, cultural, and religious features. Over time, as they interacted with other cultures and settled in various regions of Europe, they often adopted and integrated local beliefs. This blending makes it challenging to tease out what might be purely Celtic, what's PIE, and what's pre-PIE. Nevertheless, the richness and diversity of their religious world offer fascinating insights into ancient European beliefs.



User more? ChatGPT Certainly! The Celtic world was vast, and its myriad of tribes and clans had numerous gods, goddesses, and spirits. Here are additional deities from the Celtic pantheon that might have origins or influences outside of the PIE framework:
Camulos: A god of war and possibly sky, primarily associated with the Remi tribe in Gaul. His name appears in various inscriptions in Britain and the Continent.
Ogmios: Often likened to the Greek Hercules, he was portrayed as a figure with chains hanging from his tongue, attached to the ears of followers. This image represents eloquence and is quite distinct from typical PIE depictions.
Damona: A goddess linked with cattle and fertility, often paired with Borvo, a god of healing springs.
Sucellus: Sometimes depicted with a hammer and associated with the underworld, this god might have more ancient origins given the non-typical attributes connected to him.
Airmed: An Irish goddess associated with healing and resurrection. Her story is deeply interwoven with the tale of the sacred well from which all the herbs of the world sprung, a theme that might have older, localized origins.
Boann: The Irish goddess of the River Boyne. River deities, given their localized nature, often have ancient roots that predate broader cultural religious structures.
Belenos: Often associated with the sun and healing. While solar deities are widespread, including in the PIE pantheon, the specific characteristics and legends associated with Belenos might suggest older or localized roots.
Elen of the Ways: Sometimes considered an antlered goddess, she is associated with ley lines and the pathways of the land. Her origins are shrouded in mystery but could be ancient.
Andraste: An Iceni goddess invoked by Boudicca during her rebellion against the Romans. She was a goddess of victory, but her name and specific attributes might suggest non-PIE origins.
Matronae: These are "mother goddesses" venerated across Northwestern Europe. Their triadic depiction and localized attributes might have roots in earlier, perhaps pre-PIE, veneration of female divinities.
Dewi: A dragon associated with the Welsh city of St. Davids. Dragons and serpentine creatures are found in mythologies worldwide, but the specific stories and attributes of Dewi might have origins outside of PIE traditions.