Traps - Spear Trap Example
I am trying to get a handle on how to handle mechanical traps. For example, the spear trap could have been handled a few different ways--
1) +8 missile attack. Roll on the missile attack table to determine what happens
2) +11 Melee attack and the player gets a dodge based on an awareness check.
3) Character must make a dodge check. 17+ light wound, 15+ moderate wound. 13+ serious would, else critical wound (or something like that). Should an awarness check be employed as well?
There are a lot of variations and these 3 options are just to get some dialogue started. My thoughts
1) I really dislike this. it is an inanimate object, I really don't think it should be rolling dice. Plus this feels more like melee than a missile atttack
2) Not a big fan for the same reasons as 1, but at least the character gets a roll. You could modify this and say it does a 'prerolled' 15 on the attack table and the player gets a dodge based on an awareness check (singular, primary, secondary, or tertiary). In our game I rolled a 1 and really didn't think that should happen, also I shouldn't be able to roll a 10
3) probably makes the most sense but for some reason I am not a big fan.
We haven't done a lot with traps so we need to start setting some precedents. Consider the spiked pit trap. It definitely shouldn't get to roll (or am I wrong on this). There are so many different type of traps that each one could be different. I do think that whatever we land on for traps could bleed over into spells. In some ways you could make the same argument that a spell is an effect and shouldn't get rolls.
I didn't want to get into this last night in the heat of the battle. We tend to have better rule discussions when we are not playing and we have a standing rule to go with what we have at the moment and 'fix' it later.
I think a missile trap should get a static number, and the player rolls an Awareness check to see if he can reduce the effectiveness of the attack with a dodge, using our missile-dodge rule. Last night's spear could have been, say, a 15 on the missile chart. Napoleon rolls an awareness check, and based on that, he either gets a singular, primary, secondary or no modifier to the attack. If he'd been using a shield, he would roll to see what shield modifier he uses.
Same basic thing for the pit trap. Give it a DC, and the player rolls some combination of Awareness and/or Agility to avoid it.
I don't see this particular trap as a missile trap. You were in base to base contact when it came out of the wall. There would be no time to dodge it like a missile. I think melee skills would be more appropriate. It could possibly attack on the passive table or the attack table with a static '15' and if you beat it with a dodge, it misses. I think there would still be an awareness check to see if you get a Singular, Primary etc.. dodge.
I didn’t realize it was that close. I agree it wouldn’t be a missile.
Take a combination of the above. Give it a static "bonus" based on the defenders awareness check. Say anywhere 5 to 15.
Then the defender makes a defense. if they have a weapon ready already or an Automatic ready weapon they can block. otherwise its a dodge.
They dodge and compare to the above number above. This works great with someone with danger sense, as they get a better awareness check, lessening it.
So maybe make it a +19 awareness check
Succeed 5 attack
For every point you miss adds 1 to attack, with a maximum of 15.
That wareness check might be a bit high
For example. I have an awareness of 9.....A short sword out.
I roll a 7 for my awareness roll. total 16. I missed by 3. The spear is +8. I roll my block vs +8....Consult table....voila
Seems like a lot of math.
I think a trap should have a static + to the attack (better traps get better +s) and the defender gets awareness and a defense roll (dependent on how successful the awareness roll was). A successful result goes to the missile or attack chart.
I also think, depending on the trap, there should be some modifiers. For example, some traps may have a significant modifier to location (the trap last night could have a built in 30% to the chest, or the floor trap could have a built in 30% to the legs) and well made traps could have modifiers like +1 wound category, etc.
"Seems like a lot of math."
eye-roll its two checks, one of which can be a table, its no different than what you and danny suggested, it just combines a couple....I'm beginning to think you just like to be argumentative with me for the sake of enjoying oneself.
Awarness Check 17 (currently something on charts)
Table (like endurance currently on chart)
Success = +5
Missed by:
1. +6
2. +7
3. +8
.. Keep going
10. +15
Skip the part where danny rolls and just take total result as attacker result. you roll your defense.
Its 3rd grade math.
I guess my point is, I think we should use existing rules and tables as much as possible. Maybe use the TA table in some way.
do you agree or not agree the attack should be a static value based on how well you do your awareness check?
if so, do you agree you should get some wort of defense?
The TA table would be a good start...but it doesnt give you a plus...if you use the TA table with a static + of 10 maybe. You still have to have a target for the TA
I honestly dont care how we do it, i just like contributing, and since i have a hard time relaying my thoughts, your typical response will be..thats too much this thats too much math thats too much this......I might as well keep my fingers and thoughts out of all discussions.
I’m sorry I hurt your feelings.
I don’t think the attack should be a static number based on your awareness check. I think it should be a static number. Your defense should be based on your awareness check.
Firstly, my feelings dont get hurt. However, at my age, and my health, my stress levels can get elevated.
Secondly, now see your response is acceptable, and i can get behind it. So reverse what i said...A TA with a target to determine defense, and a trap rating of say +10 which will be the attack. And pending how the TA roll, you could get a singular block/dodge all the way to being passive.
How much nicer is that exchange compared to: Dur too much math.
I really did think it was too much math. When you get onto a tabletop, things need to be simple. I screw up enough as it is.
There was no more math then we currently have....awareness check...check a table...make an attack..done.
Don't make me stop this car!!
So it looks like 2 methods that are similar
The Trap would have an awareness and attack stat and probably others. For example the Spear Trap you encountered would be-
Awarness 15 (representing the chance of hearing the mechanism working)
Spear Attack 15 on the adjacent space, minus 2 for every additional 5 feet of distance from the target
30% location to the Thorax
Method 1 (TA chart)
The defender rolls his awareness and if he rolls below a 15 he consults the TA chart to see what action penalty he suffers.
Once that is determined he rolls versus an attack roll of 15 and resolves the effect
Method 2 is similar-
The defender rolls his awareness and has to beat the target number . For x number of points he misses it by it determines whether he is Primary to Tertiary with his Dodge. If he meets or beats the target he gets his singular dodge.
Once that is determined he rolls versus an attack roll of 15 and resolves the effect
I might have to adjust the awareness number based on which method we fall on.
"Don't make me stop this car!!" but daaaad merric called me complicated and he's being silly.
Merrics use of the TA chart is alot easier to deal with and integrate, more streamlined....and just like me, he didnt make himself clear, so i pulled his hair.
But Daaaad, he hit me back first.
And for dex based traps, you could use the fumble chart but dropped on it = passive instead..
I like the TA because if you have trap lore the roll could be modified base off that. Without changing how it works.
if you are talking about a "free" trap lore check to help avoid traps, that seems a bit strong. if you used trap lore prior, and you are aware a trap is there, i can see it....
I agree that a free trap lore is strong but if you said your looking for some it could be trap lore instead of awareness with some kind of benefits. But it wouldnt be to many extra rules.
I think Trap Lore would lower your check, and/or give you advantage on your Awareness check.
Trap Lore should help you find the trap...but as a passive bonus when triggering a trap you are unaware of, im not so sure about that.
I agree with Jeff on this one, I think trap lore lets you build and find traps but once one is sprung it wouldn't have a lot of impact. There my be some exceptions on delayed or some specific traps.