Identify Spell
This isnt defined very well. i dont think this should be a fast spell...I think it should take an hour maybe to cast, and possibly 5-10x more fatigue because it takes so long
what about fatigue...i just want to make sure it doesnt take away from the research action.
I’d say 2x or 3x fatigue. Research allows someone who doesn’t have arcane to find out about items. Identify allows a caster to find out the same things. It should be easier for someone who can actually use magic.
i was told/under the assumption research needed to be done by someone with arcane. I mean you have to use a skill to research arcane or other lore...i just assumed it was the skill/lore you were researching..this is news to me...and i like it!!
We already have a research action, maybe this spell is 2 things...1) at the end of the casting it gives you 2 or 3 rolls on knowledge or choose 2 or 3 abilities and if used in conjuction with a research action, it could allow a 25 day action as a 10 day action or automatically gives you +5 on your success roll and +2 on your knowledge rolls.
I think your casting roll could be used on the Research table, except that all "rolls" are chooses, and you can cast it more than once, in order to try to get all of the info. If your Arcanist doesn't have Identify, then he'll need to do a regular Research action.
I can agree with that. But I think there should some quick field use of it. Like I suggested above. A field cast would give you maybe 2 or 3 rolls on the knowledge chart. If during a research action use your suggestion
I forgot we had this thread (I didn't follow it). I have deleted the other one. Please resume the conversation
i liked how it was in a section for arcane, can you move this one?
I meant to say that your field-casting would give you instant results on the Research table, and you could cast multiple times to get all the available info. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
I agree with you merric, but i think it should only be one cast and 2-3 points.....makes it to powerful to be able to fully identify an item without spending some time with it.
I'm wary of a single spell that can completely replace a clan action. Are we saying if a clan has a spellcaster with "Identify" then they can complete more than an entire 10- or 25-day Research action in a matter of hours?
Yes.
I disagree with Merric on the completeness. As i stated before...2 uses of Identify spell.
1) Field use..cast, get 2 or 3 items from knowledge table on research action, cant be recast on same item.
2) Can be used in conjuction with research action. Gives you +5 or maybe +3 or maybe advantage on your rolls on the research action, if spell is successful.
I like Jeff's suggestions although I'd just change #2 to advantage (i.e. you can do a 10-day action and get 25-day benefits)
I think a spell caster casting Identify would get the info necessary for using the item, i.e. abilities, charges, activation words, etc. If you want History and the other background info, you'd need to research it.
I think there should be an attunement time period. It could be different for each item. I like Jeff's idea of the spell giving you information based on your roll like a mini research action.
There is an Attunement spell. If you have it and cast it successfully, you can attune more quickly. If you don't have it or your casting fails, it should take longer.
Maybe field cast of Identify gives:
Name of Item
1 or 2 abilities
How to attune
Charges, how to charge, etc, will need to be determined via research action.
Or maybe we categorize the identify spell in 3 different flavors, giving different sorts of info.
I think the effects column could give you more info, like the charging stuff.
Well initially my thought would be a field cast would allow the choice of 2 or 3 items from that table (choice)
We just need to be careful not to make it to good, or make the spell alot harder to get. or put a substantial cost in casting it.
It already requires a caster. That’s a pretty big limitation.
Look, make it easy as possible, and as powerful as possible, yay for us.
Im just trying to be realistic based on other parts of this game
Every clan has a caster and every caster has access to the Neutral spell school, so I really don't think that's a limitation at all. I could spend a few days of training to never have to do a research action ever again? That's way too strong in my opinion.
100% agree with Varock. Identify should be a good way to give you basics and set you on the right path or enhance your research action.
If your caster is on a mission, or gets killed, then he won’t be available to do the identify. We could charge Research money to cast the spell.
"Every clan has a caster and every caster has access to the Neutral spell school, so I really don't think that's a limitation at all. I could spend a few days of training to never have to do a research action ever again? That's way too strong in my opinion."
Not everything needs to be hard to do.
A couple of thoughts-
The original reason for the Research Action was not really for Arcane Items, that came around later. The Research option was to research and learn about things like "what is the state of the Pottery Market in Golotha" or "I would like to Research the Jenath History and Leaders" or "What arcane potions are available in this area". Arcane items under a Research Action would be learning much more details about the making or history of the item. Of course charges and abilities could be a part of that, or at least we added that and that may still be applicable.
I think the identify spell would show things like what Lores Types are present in the item, a general idea of the strength and capabilities. I like the idea of it costing more and taking more time. Maybe it cost 100d like a 10 day research action would take. Very complicated arcane items might need a full research action to fully understand what all it can do. I would think items that store spells, have egos, Earthmaster in origin might fall under this category.
Maybe the Identify Spell needs it's own chart to roll on.
I Like the idea of a cost to the spell. Could it tell if a item is cursed or has a spirit connected to it?
I think that is possible but I also think that is the kind of information your divination might come up with.
i like the research action...and i think it needs to remain as for the spell determining if its cursed..no...research action ultimately needs to be on all items to get a full in depth look....I know it wasnt originally intended, but its a good mechanic.
Like I said, I think Identify could give you the practical working knowledge of the item, while Research would fill in all of the background info.
I'd just like to nail this down so that i can start identifying stuff while the other guys are heading to boat.....then timador and i can plot and plan for the coolest stuff.
So should we go with-
It takes 10 Minutes
It cost 100d gem
Roll on the effects table for the number of rolls on the chart
The Chart:
1-Origin
2-History
3-Attunement
4-Abilities
5-Drawbacks
6-Charges
7 Recharging
8-Lore - Other
9-School
10-Choose 1-9
I would want a consensus
That's fine with me. Don't forget the skill stuff we would use as a modifier:
Player and Ref decide on skill to be checked
Stat - Int, Wis, Will
Applicable Lore gets an advantage
Identification Spell
Arcanist general skill
Would you need an actual 100d gem, or just rare materials that cost that much?
So are we saying that even after a successful roll, you still roll on effects chart, and could fumble and gain no knowledge and even blow up the item? Im not sure i like that. Can we chooose to use the effects column instead of fatigue and take that number and add it to our effects table roll.?
This is casting a spell so there would be no skill check. You would use the casters bonus on the spell and die results and use the spellcasting chart. Yes I would think actual gems as a spell component.
You can still use the Research Action but this would be an on the fly spell being cast.
Jeff and I were posting at the same time my thoughts on his questions is that you can fumble any spell but I don't think it would blow up an item.
Say you are a plus 5 identify and roll a 7. A 12 would get you to roll 4 times on the chart. If you fumble I would say that you gain nothing, take the fatigue, and cannot use the spell on this particular item again.
I'd have to think about taking a full point of fatigue and rolling on the effects chart.
12 is only 2 rolls....what chart are you looking at?
Oh effects chart on spell casting not research..
in that case, i think that is satisfactory..but finding gems worth 100d might prove to be difficult, unless the pearls and emeralds in the treasure are multiple...and the value is easily discernible.
We could build a different results chart for the spell. I just used that for an example.
I think your suggestion of using the effects table to determine number of things learned is fine. But I think you should be able to choose what you learn. But only choose 1 of each type max
I like the randomness with magic. You get multiple rolls and one of them is a choose.
and I don't think the spell should be better than a full research action.
Can I assume I can start with identifying using th we rules and the gems we have available?
Does it require a spellcaster to do the Research action, or can anyone with a suitable lore do it? I think it should require a spellcaster, at least to get the usage details. A non-caster could get the background info.
I’d like to get more of a consensus before we move forward.
I agree with Gordon’s suggestion. We have to remember most items are rather simple. So it might be on an item to item basis.
Honestly I thought it required a spell caster to do a research action on an arcane item. But it begs the question is there book research involved and if so do we have to go to a big city
Not sure I understand exactly on the Fatigue/Effect column - are we saying as a baseline (using Fatigue column) you get only 1 roll on the chart, but you can choose Effect column to take 1 point of fatigue and get more rolls based on Effect result?
And, to be clear on the example above, if I rolled a 12 on the Effects columns wouldn't I get 5 rolls (1 baseline + 4 from effect)?
Can you research the same item repeatedly?
If yes to all of the above, I still think this is as strong, if not stronger, than the Research action. You can basically still get 3-5 pieces of information instantly and save yourself 10-25 mandays which is huge.
i think what danny is saying is you do the fatigue column as normal, but refer to the effects column to get your # of rolls.
Detori- go ahead and cast per our discussion the other night. Use the 10 item chart above to roll on.
If you roll on the fatigue chart you get 1 question.
If you roll on the effects chart you take 1 point of fatigue and get 1+the effects chart number of rolls.
You will not have advantage.
If we want to adjust these rules we can do so later.
Wait. Didn’t we do this already?
That's right. Don't know what I was thinking. I was trying to clear some of my notifications.