Destiny Turn Summer 616 - Trade Negotiations
so there is 8 positive and 7 negative....last turn we tried to work something out...it sort of worked and sort of not.
I've heard suggestion to try to work it out where each person gets 1 positive and 1 negative, which would leave 3 positive and 2 negative in a free for all.
Personally i dont think we can come to an agreement, but willing to listen. But 2 of us really didnt get much of anything..yes i got the quest..but everyone will benefit from it.
I will throw out there i'd be willing to take the sol hit.
Even if we all agree on 1 negative to take and leave positives as a free-for-all, I think that might still be beneficial to save some destiny. I agree though, not sure we can all come to an agreement.
For negatives, I'd be willing to take the Prince reversed, the Deuce of Swords reversed, or (potentially) the Harp reversed.
I'd provisionally be willing to take the Sage, the Prince and the Bannerbearer if I get the King of Cups, The Wolf, the Deuce of Flames and Cornucopia, depending on the final definitions. That would leave one positive and negative for each other clan, which y'all could work out.
Are you saying, as part of this deal, you wouldn't bid on any of the remaining cards?
Yes. We'd have to work out how I wouldn't get any more negatives, but I wouldn't bid on any other positives. If the four of you could work out deals for the eight remaining cards, then none of us would spend more than a few Destiny, not counting Minor Cards.
I'd be willing to take the Sage, the Prince and the Bannerbearer if I get the King of Cups, The Wolf, Nolomar and Cornucopia. That would leave one positive and negative for each other clan, which y'all could work out.
Thoughts?
I'd potentially be willing to agree to this if you would take either King of Cups or Cornucopia out of your list of positives and replace with a different positive.
I'd also prefer to see the Prince replaced with a different negative but less worried about that.
I'd be willing to swap the King of Cups for the Queen of Swords.
*NOT* *A* *FAN* of any deal that doesnt include guaranteeing everyone one positive card they like...we all saw how this went last time.
To me the best bet would be for us all to all roll a d100.
Highest goes first and lowest picks whether its positive or negative...
for instance
Merric 97
Varock 88
Acoma 55
Timador 44
Dhrakoth 12
Merric goes first...Dhrakoth picks choose negatives first
Choose a negative
Merric
Varock
Acoma
Timador
Dhrakoth
Pick a postiive
Dhrakoth
Timador
Acoma
Varock
Merric
Last 5 will be done the normal way or further negotiations amongst players.
I'm not a fan of a blind draft. I'd rather just spend Destiny and take my chances.
And there you have it.....Im not a fan of signing off on you getting the 6 you want and other 4 trying to negotiate for the last 9..
Then go with my original suggestion....pick your top 4 good ones and your top 4 bad ones..everyone else do it and we all take one of each based on our list and everyone elses list.
Works out the same as blind draft, other than you can preview (mostly)
OK, nevermind.
The problem I have with a blind draft is this - each clan has chosen various things they have focused on over the past 4+ turns. Some have probably chosen to do more actions/missions, some have chosen to try to increase their production, some have chosen to invest in improving their destiny, etc. I have heavily invested in increasing my destiny. A blind draft basically negates all of that by putting everyone on an equal playing field when they really shouldn't be based on the decisions they have made to that point. People with higher destiny should be able to realistically command better deals in negotiation because, without a deal, they can still mostly get what they want anyway and leave the lower destiny clans with worse cards.
If anything, Gordon's deal probably helps those lower destiny clans more than higher ones because it gives more negative cards to him than he would likely take otherwise, meaning fewer negative cards going to clans that can't avoid them by spending destiny.
That pretty much sums up my perspective. I was willing to take the two worst cards plus one more if I could get some of the best cards. If we don't have a deal in place, I think I can avoid the worst cards and still get some good ones.
Everyone I've talked to has said that Bannerbearer and Sage are their two least favorite cards. A couple of people have also said their main goal is to avoid the worst Reversed cards. I'm willing to take those in return for taking some of the most favored cards. One suggestion was to pair the Reversed cards with the Face Up cards, and make a deal based on that. When I compared them, they came up really even in that regard, but if you're going for something like King of Cups you might not want the King of Flames Reversed.
I'd be willing to take the Sage, The Prince and the Bannerbearer if I get the The Wolf, Nolomar and Cornucopia. That would leave one Face Up and Reversed for each other clan (which y'all could work out), and one Face Up to be bid on by everyone. Here are the remaining items:
King of Cups
Queen of Scrolls
Deuce of Flames
Queen of Swords
Knight of Scrolls
King of Flames Reversed
Queen of Flames Reversed
Deuce of Swords Reversed
Harp Reversed
I want the Wolf more for the roleplay than for the fighters. I'd prefer the King of Cups, but I'd be willing to swap out the Wolf for the Queen of Swords and one of the other Face Ups.
If we agree to do the 100 Destiny flip thing, I'd be willing to take The Sage Reversed, The BannerBearer Reversed, Cornucopia and either Queen of Swords or Nolomar, if we can arrange for someone other than me to take the rest of the Reversed cards. I'll forego bidding on the rest of the Face Up cards.
If we don't do the flip thing, I'd be willing to take the Sage Reversed, the Prince Reversed, and the Bannerbearer Reversed if I get the Queen of Swords, The Wolf, Nolomar and Cornucopia, and no other Reversed.
EDIT: I'd be willing to drop The Wolf from the list, and get one of the other positives instead.
Ok, here’s my latest proposal, to at least account for the negatives. It’s based on the theory that we implement the 101-flip rule:
Varock gets the Deuce of Swords Reversed.
Acoma gets the Harp Reversed
Timador gets the Queen of Flames Reversed
Dhrakoth gets the King of Flames Reversed
Merric gets the Sage Reversed, the Banner-bearer Reversed, Cornucopia and Queen of Swords.
We can fight over the Prince Reversed.
Veto
To be honest I dont look at these things till the week of bid bribe. But In my opinion when we try to work out deals between everyone people feel like they always got a deal they didn't want in the end. One the week of bid bribe if people want to make deals Ill listen but before then Ive got other stuff to focus on.
I think waiting until the last minute to talk deals makes it harder to get a deal everyone likes. I was hoping to at least decide the negatives, but if we need to wait then we need to wait.
Maybe we can start with any must-haves that people would require in a negotiation? For example, "I won't agree to any deal where X, Y, or Z happens" to narrow down the negotiations.
I don't like veto-ing without some feedback, unless you're saying you are veto-ing the very concept of pre-determining the negatives. In that case, negotiation is a moot point anyway.
Im not about making any pre-deals unless everyone is involved..i worked diligently with a couple of players last time, to end up with basically crap, while others got some nice things. I'd rather end up with more bad stuff then know i got hammered in a deal that didnt go well for me.
Here's another proposal for resolving the negatives. I know that TJ probably isn't going to have opinion on this for a while, but I wanted to put it out there anyway.
Varock gets the Deuce of Swords Reversed.
Acoma gets the Harp Reversed
Timador gets the Queen of Flames Reversed
Dhrakoth gets the King of Flames Reversed
Merric gets the Sage Reversed.
We can fight over the Prince Reversed and the Banner-Bearer Reversed.
I'd rather have the prince, i'd like to avoid settlement negatives, as you have taught me well...
I think we'd all rather have the Prince. I was leaving the least worst and most worst out there to be bid on, and trying to pick everyone's next least harmful card, based on feedback I've gotten. If I got no feedback, I guessed.
guess it really doesnt matter too much..since a couple of folks dont want to talk turkey till we get near the destiny game...and thats how things went south for me last time
What do you propose for the positives?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PVDMfJEENSEStyG4dRGR4qgU4RczTV-4RHHF-DV5b4A/edit?usp=sharing
I'd be willing to take everything, good and bad.
Especially if we allow the pre-bid flip. I can almost guarantee I'll be in single digits in Destiny points.
At this point we should only negotiate negatives. If we negotiate good stuff as well. No one is spending destiny.
So, that's a no? Spoil sport.
FWIW, I'd be spending a TON of Destiny.
I think we should see how close we are getting the positive/negative from the spreadsheet first. We may be down to only a few items that are a free -for-all. I would take #4 or #5.
If we're doing just negatives, I'd be willing to take The Harp, Deuce of Swords, or The Prince.
If we're doing the spreadsheet, I'd be willing to take 3, 4 or 5.
I think the Harp should be opposite Cornucopia. If it were, I’d be willing to take it.
I'd be willing to take #4, #5 and #7. I think #6 should stay out there to be bid on.
I dont care much about the positives in 4 and 5. 7 i like so i'll likely be bidding on them.
OK, so maybe we should just be talking about the negatives. What do people think about this proposal?
Varock gets the Deuce of Swords Reversed.
Acoma gets the Harp Reversed
Timador gets the Queen of Flames Reversed
Dhrakoth gets the King of Flames Reversed
Merric gets the Sage Reversed.
is the sage clan's choice of who gets hit by it?
I think it's supposed to say "A random arcanist in your clan casts all spells..."
I agree it should be random arcanist. In my case, I only have one, so...
Hmmm maybe detori needs a break from adventuring..
What do people think about this proposal?
Varock gets the Deuce of Swords Reversed.
Acoma gets the Harp Reversed
Timador gets the Queen of Flames Reversed
Dhrakoth gets the King of Flames Reversed
Merric gets the Sage Reversed.
I'd prefer the prince
I'm sure people will let you have it as well. I left off the least onerous (Prince) and most onerous (Banner-bearer) because no one would mind the Prince too much, and no one wants the Banner-bearer at all. Making a deal on the other five should be easier and more equitable.
Stop using fancy words...it hurts my head.
I'd be willing to take #3, #6 and #7.
Why are you okay with taking 3 negs?
Because I want the positives, and I don't want the other negatives.
So what positives are you want in lieu of those negatives?
I want the positives on #3, #6 and #7.
Thoughts?
Yes, I know that. I think I'm not getting my point across. I'm willing to take Sage-Reversed, Banner-Bearer-Reversed and Deuce of Swords-Reversed in order to get the positives that go with them (Wolf, Cornucopia, Knight of Scrolls and Nolomar), and not get any other negatives.
well you had mentioned you wanted the positives on 3/6/7...i dont see any numbered lists here, why i was confused.
Follow the link you posted on July 16th. It shows Jason's spreadsheet proposing the distribution of face-ups/reverses.
yah those positives are too strong for one person...i'll pass on that unless im getting something big too
OK. I guess we can bid for everything then.