I know we're not really taking this to literal lengths but I was just looking to the detail of some of this stuff, at least right now as we're early on.
AD&D 1e - doesn't really seem to have much info on what regular stuff weighs and what that means regarding encumbrance, only some of the weapons.
AD&D 2e - does have more data in this realm.
1lb = 10gp
Clothes
2e (Player's Handbook p69 & p76) add 5 Lbs for clothes worn.
It's unclear however if that includes standard boots and a cloak. I think it should.
Also not clear is if that 5 lbs becomes 0 if you then wear leather armour on top.
(i.e. clothes are 5lbs and leather armour on top is then 15 lbs total, thus leather armour is +10 lbs).
As a check I looked at other editions: 1e, 2e, 4e all have leather armour as 15 lbs but 5e interestingly does have it as 10 lbs.
I then checked in the 1e DMs book (p26), which mentions that the encumbrance is the worn value and not a carried value, it also had 5 lbs for a small shield.
Since I was then looking in 1e DMs Guide I found a useful table of encumbrance for items on p223 (listed in GPs).
At the end there was also the comment that deliberately not included for encumbrance are MU material components, helmet, one set of clothing, thieves picks.
Hence in 1e standard clothing is a 0 encumbrance.
I also then looked in later editions for similar values, 4e players handbook (p214, p218 & p222) and 5e players (p136, p140 & p141), see later tables.
In 4e & 5e we have these other weights but again, are they as worn, carried or under armour values?
There seems to be no mention of standard clothing being an encumbrance and interestingly no weight values for clothing such as hats, belts or cloaks.
So how do we assess standard clothes for encumbrance and what does a "set of clothing" include?
To me it make sense if you are wearing standard clothes then that's a 0 encumbrance and if you are carrying them (spare set) then that's an encumbrance value.
You then add encumbrance for wearing armour etc.
What's included in standard clothes?
Adding a cloak for more encumbrance I can sort of understand however an issue for me is footwear.
If you were NOT wearing boots I'd find that more of an encumbrance, although maybe not for Hobbits.
Note that only in 1e are weights/encumbrance considered for cloak & boots of any kind.
My take is that standard clothes when worn are 0 encumbrance but if carried are whatever their weight is.
What's then included with standard clothes would be any under cloths, trousers, jerkin, belt, footwear, cloak and a hat (if required).
Clothing
| Weights in GPs | Aerisian | 1e | 2e | 4e | 5e | Worn | Version comments |
|---|
| Hat | 1 | - | - | - | - | 0 | 1e no value for any helm |
| Boots,low hard | 4 | 30 | - | - | - | 0 | 1e 30, other editions no mention |
| Boots,high hard | 8 | 60 | - | - | - | 0 | 1e 60, other editions no mention |
| Standard Clothes | - | 30 | 30 | 40 | 30 | 0 | worn 1e 0, other editions no mention at all |
| Traveller Clothes | - | - | - | - | 40 | 0 | worn 1e 0, other editions no mention at all |
| Cloak | 8 | 50 | - | - | - | 0 | worn 1e 25, other editions no mention at all |
| Belt | 1 | 3 | - | - | - | 0 | 1e 3, all editions no mention as when worn |
Weapons & Misc Items
Including the MU 1e table info
| Weights in GPs | Aerisian | 1e | 2e | 4e | 5e | Notes |
|---|
| Backpack | 10 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 50 | 4e mentions the weight as being empty |
| Sack, large | 2 | 20 | 1 or 5 | - | 5 | 2e individually =0, 10=10gp therefore assume 1gp each.
Another copy of 2e lists as 1/2 lb. |
| Tinderbox | 1 | 2 | - | - | 10 | |
| Torch | 5 | 25 | 10 | 10 | 10 | |
| Wineskin/Waterskin | 3 | 5 | 10 | 40 | 50 | 1e full =50 |
| Bed Roll | 15 | 20 | 20 | 50 | 70 | Bedroll for 1e & 2e
I'm actually using the Saddle Blanket as a guide |
| Rope (50') hemp | 50 | 75 | 200 | 100 | 100 | |
| Rope (50') silk | 20 | - | 80 | 50 | 50 | |
| Thieves Picks | 10 | 0 | 10 | 10 | 10 | |
| Leather Armour | 150 | 150 | 150 | 150 | 100 | |
| Shield small | 30 | 50 | 50 | 60 | 60 | |
| Dagger | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | |
| Longsword | 40 | 60 | 40 | 40 | 30 | |
| Warhammer | 80 | 50 | 60 | 50 | 20 | |
| Short Bow, light | 20 | 50 | 20 | 20 | 20 | |
| Light Crossbow | 60 | 50 | 70 | 40 | 50 | |
| Arrows each | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0.5 | |
| Crossbow bolts each | 1.5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0.75 | |
| Case, scroll | 5 | 25 | 0 or 5 | 10 | 10 | 2e Scroll case =0 or 1/2 lb |
| Case, bolt | 5 | 25 | 10 | 10 | 10 | |
| Quiver | 15 | 30 | 10 | - | 10 | 1e unclear if this is a
full Quiver of 20 arrows |
| Sling | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2e individually =0,
10=10gp therefore assume 1gp each. |
| Sling Stone each | 0.5 | 1 | 5 | - | - | |
| 20 Sling bullets | 10 | - | - | 50 | 15 | |
| Quarterstaff | 40 | 50 | 40 | 40 | 40 | |
| Arcane staff | 40 | - | - | 40 | 40 | |
| Spellbook | 20 | 200 | 5 | 30 | 30 | 1e large metal bound book
2e paper is 0 for encumbrance unless "hundreds are carried"
suggest ~1gp per 100 pages, eg 5gp=~500page book |
Arrows & Quarrels - Arrows & Bolts seem to average out as 1gp each and their relevant carry cases average to 10 gps.
Example Characters:
Zalman - Magic User
Standard weight allowance here is 350gp
| Item | Aerisian | 1e | 2e | 4e | 5e |
|---|
| Clothes | - | | | | |
| Trousers | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Jerkin | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Cloak | 8 | 25 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Hat | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Belt | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Stuff | - | | | | |
| Backpack | 10 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 50 |
| Bed roll | 15 | 20 | 20 | 50 | 70 |
| Tinderbox | 1 | 2 | - | - | 10 |
| Wineskin | 3 | 50 | 10 | 40 | 50 |
| Scroll Case | 5 | 25 | 5 | 10 | 10 |
| Spell Book | 20 | 200 | 5 | 30 | 30 |
| Rations (5-day) | 20 | - | - | - | - |
| Weapons | - | | | | |
| Short bow | 20 | 50 | 20 | 20 | 20 |
| Dagger | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 |
| Arrow (20 of) | 20 | 40 | 20 | 20 | 10 |
| Quiver | 15 | 30 | 10 | - | 10 |
| Arcanium | 20 | 100 | 20 | 40 | 40 |
| Armour | - | | | | |
| Leather | 75 | 150 | 150 | 150 | 100 |
| total = | 253 | 735 | 290 | 390 | 410 |
Matrox - Fighter
Strong character hence weight allowance is higher at 350 + 350 = 700gp
| Item | Aerisian | 1e | 2e | 4e | 5e |
|---|
| Clothes | - | | | | |
| Boots | 6 | 30 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Trousers | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Jerkin | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Cloak | 8 | 25 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Hat | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Belt | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Stuff | - | | | | |
| Backpack | 10 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 50 |
| Bed roll | 15 | 20 | 20 | 50 | 70 |
| Tinderbox | 1 | 2 | - | - | 10 |
| Wineskin | 3 | 50 | 10 | 40 | 50 |
| Sack | 2 | 20 | 5 | - | - |
| Rations (5-day) | 20 | - | - | - | - |
| Weapons | - | | | | |
| Short bow | 20 | 50 | 20 | 20 | 20 |
| Dagger | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 |
| Arrow (20 of) | 20 | 40 | 20 | 20 | 10 |
| Quiver | 15 | 30 | 10 | - | 10 |
| Long sword | 40 | 60 | 40 | 40 | 30 |
| Armour | - | | | | |
| Brigandine | 250 | 250 | 250 | 250 | 250 |
| Shield sm | 30 | 50 | 50 | 60 | 60 |
| | | | | |
| total = | 461 | 660 | 455 | 510 | 570 |
Asus - Ranger
Stronger character hence weight allowance is higher at 350 + 500 = 850gp
| Item | Aerisian | 1e | 2e | 4e | 5e |
|---|
| Clothes | - | | | | |
| Boots | 4 | 30 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Trousers | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Jerkin | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Cloak | 8 | 25 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Hat | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Belt | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Stuff | - | | | | |
| Backpack | 10 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 50 |
| Bed roll | 15 | 20 | 20 | 50 | 70 |
| Tinderbox | 1 | 2 | - | - | 10 |
| Wineskin | 3 | 50 | 10 | 40 | 50 |
| Sack | 2 | 20 | 5 | - | - |
| Rope 50' | 50 | 75 | 200 | 100 | 100 |
| Weapons | - | | | | |
| Short bow | 20 | 50 | 20 | 20 | 20 |
| Dagger | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 |
| Arrow (20 of) | 20 | 40 | 20 | 20 | 10 |
| Quiver | 15 | 30 | 10 | - | 10 |
| Long sword | 40 | 60 | 40 | 40 | 30 |
| Blow Pipe | 3 | 3? | 3 | | |
| Armour | - | | | | |
| Leather | 208 | 150 | 150 | 150 | 100 |
| Shield sm | 30 | 50 | 50 | 60 | 60 |
| - | | | | |
| total = | 457 | 635 | 555 | 510 | 520 |
I really appreciate the research and detail, including the suggestions and guidelines. I personally favour the 2e approach. I think there has to be a mix of weight and awkwardness attributed to encumbrance, and that helps to resolve things like 200 for the 50' rope. It is something that could easily be ditched to free up carrying capacity by Asus.
I agree that both the weight and awkwardness being factors. 1e seems like a good start but went a bit overboard with some items. I'm assuming later iterations then tweaked the numbers to enhance gameplay but some of the new numbers used, like the bedroll or backpack for instance, are a jump. 2e does seem like a good general compromise with the only difficulty being that there are some outliers there too and that I did have 2 versions of the Players Handbook to reference which had different values sometimes. Incidentally on the character sheet for the MU - since I didn't have a 2e value for his staff I thought a quarterstaff was 40gp and that's about 8 foot long so an MU staff (esp for a hobbit) would be circa half the length, so half the weight at 20gp. The rope is something you can string across your back so I think it could be the 75 as in 1e (or 100 in 4e & 5e) rather than 200. My example would be that a bow and a crossbow might weigh a similar amount but the bow could be considered easier to string over your back than the crossbow. An interesting one is a the spellbook. A large metal hinged leather bound library book has a weight of course but it's also a tricky shape to carry thus could be an encumbrance of 200gp. A travelling MU however, who is learning their trade, will be instead more likely to be carrying something like a school book in which they write the spells as they learn them. This school book would likely be in the form of a relatively small book bound in leather, similar to Dr Jones' notebook from Indiana Jones. Thus a spellbook can be both 200 and much less depending on which type.