July 7th Interview
The July 7th interview was an interview of Takeshi Mutō and Aika Mutō in 1646 July 7th when both Aika and Takeshi were 95. The interview would cover a series of topic including things on his personal life, religion, politics, and philosophy. It remains one of the most quoted interviews in history. The interview took place in the garden of the Mutō house, and it reportedly took a few hours.
Notable quotes
Transcribed: 1646, July 7th, Transcribed by: Kiyoshi Sawaya In no particular order. K: Let's start with a simple question, where were you born? T: I don't think it's around anymore, but my earliest memories are of working on a small rice farm, I've gotten knocked in the head a few too many times, I can't remember it's name and I never bothered to return, but I heard it got burned down during the war. K: Alright then, but do you have a general location? T: I do believe it was a little ways out of Kyoto --- K: Right, alright, what do you do with your time now that you're no longer Shogun? T: I . . . well, I spend time here, I travel around, take care of my pigeons, and . . . Well really just spend time here with Aika. T: I didn't live in the palace, the palace was for diplomacy only. --- K: I understand, so, I've heard rumors about things you said about the Germanics and the Italians of Europe, now as ex-official record keeper I'm surprised I never heard about this, but I'd like to hear your opinion on the rumors? have you even heard them? T: I don't think I ever said anything official about them, so let this be my official statement, I have heard from the merchants and travelers about the state of their plight, and I cannot help by think of them as similar to the plight that Japan not so long ago. I would declare both of those men the White Japanese of the west, and they have my personal permission to call us the Asian Germans or the Asian Italians of the east, and I hold both of them in high regard, the same esteem I hold the Spanish and Portuguese. K: Well that answers that question, but if you were still Shogun would you consider an alliance? T: I would consider it, but just like Japan was a while ago, allying to the Holy Roman Empire or Italy would be for not, as they would squabble over which clan, or principality in their case, I had allied to, I hope that once they have unified, and I know they will, that we could have a strong alliance, It's good to have friends on the other side of the world. K: It's good to have friends, speaking of friends and support, what do you think about what the people are doing to you? T: What do you mean? K: I mean the almost legendary status they've written you up to be, the stories and myths and such. T: Well (Sighs) I'll be honest I'm not a massive fan of it, I'm glad that the people like me enough to do this, I'm not even sure if I deserve all of it, but I want history and the people to know Takeshi the man, but I feel that Takeshi the legend is simply more popular now. K: Is that partly why you agreed to the interview? T: Very much so, I'm 95 now, I'm not sure how much time I have left in my life, and I realize that Takeshi the legend will stay more popular, but I hope that Takeshi the man become at least known once you publish this. --- K: Onto the next question, many of what we would call the intellectuals don't have a very high opinion of you, what do you think about them. T: When I gave up power, I was scared because people listen to them, usually without regard to logic. I do believe many of them are good people, and they are certainly talented people, however their life experience is minimal. I don't want people who have minimal life experience and wisdom ruling the government especially when they think they're right. I believe I said something, about thi- (overlapping) K: Yes I remember it was 1610, we were talking you said 'The intellectuals impose a tyranny of righteousness' T: Yes, you're paraphrasing, but the point is Intellectuals think they're right, but many times they push their own agenda, and many go along with them because they think they're right, and somebody who goes against their favorite intellectual, 'well they must be a horrible person who wants to degrade society', and it turns quickly into mob rule, and I don't think a country should ever be governed by mob rule, it's a recipe for disaster. --- K: let's move onto the next question written here, I really should have asked this one earlier, how did you and Aika meet? T: That was, a long time ago, let me think, we were, 15? (He turns to Aika and she nods.) I was 15 at the time and I was completing my last 3 years of my training on mount Hiei, and she would come around almost every day. She would come over to me in particular, duty came first though, so I finished my training and fought for 12 more years, up until 1583 when I came back, for her, and while I was there I was commissioned by the Emperor, and the rest is history. K: Speaking of your marriage, now I know the answer, but for those who may not have read all of my records, how would you describe your marriage. T: The best one could wish for. K: That's it? T: Words don't do it justice. --- K: Alright, also you said earlier you were commissioned by the Emperor, you don't have to answer, but throughout your career, how much of a hand did the Emperor have in your actions as Shogun. T: I don't suppose he'd have a problem with me saying this, so I'll tell you the truth. Almost every action I did was under orders from the Emperor, sometimes vague orders which left me to carry out my orders the best way I see fit, other times he would give me a direct order. I will remind you that many of them I agreed upon, the Emperor and I agreed on a great many things. K: So many of your actions were orders from the Emperor. T: Yes, they were, but the execution was always up to me. Any ill effects of my leadership should be attributed to me, and nobody else. --- K: Many have criticized you due to the bīngyuè 40th enactment, your opinion on that? T: They don't appreciate what I did, and I understand, but their children, and their children's children will. I've seen men and women have their lives destroyed by that instituion, it's an awful awful world down there, and for what? It certainly isn't worth the suffering. K: I see, also, on that note, was the Tokyo brothel fight, was that real? I don't remember it and I was your recordkeeper? T: Yes, it was 1595, I remember the samurai were tied up with some bandits a while west, and I saw that despite being told multiple times they would not shut down. I was in town so I grabbed my naginata and went there to force them to shut down. They had around 20 armed guards, some with guns, some with spears, I went home with a crushed bit of lead on my chestplate and a cut on my hand, but it was shutdown by the time I left. K: Why did I never hear about this. T: Because I forgot to tell you. K: Is that all? T: Yes, it's as simple as that.Document Structure
Publication Status
It is publicly available, and was published by Kiyoshi on 1650
Type
Record, Transcript (Communication)
Medium
Paper
Authoring Date
1646, July 7th
Location
Authors
Signatories (Characters)
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